In 1809 there were two types of 8 Reales issued by the Mexico City Mint, both issued under Ferdinand VII. They were the 1809 TH and the 1809 HJ.

The practice at the mint was to identify the assayers by placing the senior assayer’s initial first when going around the coin clockwise, using the initial of what we call “the first name” in the United States of America. “Senior” refers to the assayer hired first at the mint.

The years 1809 and 1810 were special cases where 3 first class assayers were employed at the Mexico City Mint at the same time. Tomas Butron Miranda (T) was an assayer from 1801 into 1810, Henrique Buenaventura Azorin (H) from 1803 into 1814, and Joaquin Davila Madrid (J) was an assayer from 1809 into 1833.  

For the part of 1809 before Joaquin Davila Madrid (J) was hired, and at some times thereafter into 1810, the Reales bore the initials TH referring to Miranda (T) and Azorin (H). In 1809 after the hiring of Madrid (J) the 1809 Reales could then bear the initials (HJ). 

I do not know the reason for the anomaly in the succession of assayers in 1809 and 1810.  In Carlos Jara’s article Rare Date/Assayer Initials Combinations 1783FM in the July/August 2016 World Numismatics Newsletter he discovered in contemporary records the logical reasons, following the rules, why the apparent anomalies occurred over the time period 1778-85.  It is reasonable to expect that a similar result might be found once the period 1809-10 is examined.

 

The bigger story during this time period was the abdication of Carolus IIII on March 19, 1808.  Carolus turned the throne over to his oldest living son, Ferdinand VII, who then became King of Spain on that date. (Four of Ferdinand’s older brothers had died when young children). 

Napoleon Bonaparte had a large standing army in Spain at that time, and distrusted Ferdinand VII. Napoleon was able to get Carolus IIII to retract his abdication of March 19 and abdicate instead to Napoleon Bonaparte on May 5.  Ferdinand VII was forced to abdicate (turn the throne back over to his father) on May 6.  Since Carolus had abdicated to Napoleon the previous day, Napoleon held the throne, who turned it over to his older brother Joseph, who became King Joseph I of Spain on June 6, 1808.  On August 11 the abdications of Carolus to Napoleon and Ferdinand to Carolus were declared null and void.  On August 24, Ferdinand was proclaimed King of Spain again.  On January 14, 1809, the British Government acknowledged Ferdinand VII as King of Spain.  Emperor Napoleon agreed to acknowledge Ferdinand King of Spain on December 11, 1813, at which time he turned the throne back over to Ferdinand VII, who again became King of Spain from December 11, 1813 until his death on September 29, 1833. During this period from 1808-13, Spain’s central government recognized Joseph as King, but the citizens of Spain did not.

 

For the Reales minted during this time, dies from Spain were not sent to the Colonial Mints in 1808 after Ferdinand VII became King. At the Mexico City Mint, the Ferdinand VII Armored Bust series was used during the period 1808-11 where a made-up or imaginary portrait of Ferdinand VII was used since they did not know what he looked like. The mints at Lima, Peru and Santiago, Chile made their own different versions of Ferdinand VII’s portrait during this time period.  At the Mexico City Mint, official versions of Ferdinand VII’s portrait started in 1811 with the Draped Bust series.

 

Mexico City 8 Reales from 1791 issued under Carolus IIII through the armored bust series ending in 1811 issued under Ferdinand VII were 89.6% pure silver.

 

NGC grades this coin as an MS61.

 

Photography:

 

The physical appearance of a coin will differ depending on the type and intensity of the light under which we view the coin.  I use a 100 watt incandescent light bulb at a distance of about 1 foot.

 

Sales Information

DOMESTIC SALES - FREE SHIPPING. 

Tracking Numbers:  I will post a tracking number after I ship to you.

 

INTERNATIONAL SALES 

I am now currently making international sales. 

As I understand it, if you can see my listing, you can buy it from outside the USA.  My shipping it to Kentucky is free to you.  The part about getting your coin from Kentucky to you has all been worked out by Global Shipping.  Supposedly, you can see your mailing costs, etc.

Payment

I would appreciate your paying me in a timely fashion after the close of the sale.

Other Information

My shipment to you:  The 8^th largest city in the USA no longer has a Post Office open after 5:00PM Monday through Friday. My mail route is “a training route” so I no longer have any idea who is going to be delivering my mail, or at what time of day.  I am not going to leave a $100-$1,000 coin outside to be picked up by “whomever”.  Given all of this, if you win and pay for a coin this morning, it probably won’t be put in the mail this afternoon.  They are taken to the Post Office to be mailed.

Returns:  This is a collector coin and not just some chunk of silver bullion.  If you do not feel that this coin is “right for you” after you have examined it, send an email letting me know it is coming back to me.  Return shipping cost is at the buyer’s expense.  Return it at your convenience, preferably within 14 days. The shipping to you is at my expense for domestic shipping. 

This is an old collector’s coin, and you and I both know, as coin collectors, sometimes a coin that looks good from photos does not measure up to our expectations.  After you have looked at it, if you decide that it is “not for you”, just let me know that you will be sending it back so that I will know to expect it.  I have other old 8 Reales.  If for some reason we can’t get you to feel satisfied with this coin, that doesn’t mean you won’t be happy with the next one you win.

Please read everything I have stated to you about this coin, if I have made any specific comments about it.  If there is something of interest to you about the coin that I did not explain to you in this listing, send an email.