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This is a very interesting and seldom seen antique gilt on silver plated - brass base metal contemporary forgery copy of an English countermarked ? Oliver Cromwell crown coin dated 1658.

You can google Contemporary Forgeries as well as other interesting websites relating to the puncheons - dies being sold slightly later and then coins being made from them.

Thank you to Gary, who has just messaged me to say it looks like a British Museum Electrotype made in the 1840-1880 period. And he thinks the M below the bust is a giveaway to the origin of the coin. It could well be. Again I ask if anyone has any BM electrotype examples that you get them out and compare them to this example. Thank you Gary for this info.

So what we need now is anyone with a collection of Museum electrotype coins to have a look at this and please compare it to your collection or a museum collection. There cannot be just this ONLY example. So if you could compare the size, legend, die fault, the M or whatever the little mark is below the bust, the die axis and the weight and anything else you can think of. It is most intriguing don't you think.

Thank you also to Alan who said this .... Sadly. It’s absolutely NOT a BM electro …(which are virtual clones of the originals). Alan (Professional Numismatist since 1977 and Civil War coinage specialist).

But Alan the specialist never told me what he thought it was only what it wasn't ! So we are no wiser !? Keep the ideas coming, someone somewhere must have a similar coin in their collection.

A number of interesting things about this coin, as we know the Victorian period jewellers liked to get older coins and make them into jewellery - brooches as well as spoons and toddy ladles, incorporating coins into their bowls or adding a brooch pin to the back and even engraving and enamelling coins.

All the items above I buy and sell on a regular basis from the live auctions around England. This coin I was attracted to as its been brooched and it was in a Victorian - Edwardian jewellery box at a live auction in amongst mainly costume jewellery and later enamel badges etc. My sort of box lot.

This coin as you can clearly see on the Reverse has the remains of silver solder in the usual place where you would attach a clasp and pin for a brooch. The two oval marks are all that is left from this brooch pin now. The coin was like this when I got it. The brooch pin had already been taken off.

The coin is also gilded - gilt and I can see it has originally been silver plated on what looks like brass base metal, looking at the 2 oval parts on the Rev. you can see the silver plating and the copper metal showing below.

Now looking on the Obv. carefully you can see the coin die has had a FLAW in the drapery, this type of coin die flaw is well known and documented so we know this coin has actually been made using a proper die and again you can google quite a number of websites relating to different stages of the coin dies being used so this die flaw starts to get faint etc. Sometimes called an advanced die break as well.

This coin die flawed drapery is easy to see and could be described as mid to late stage flaw.

When looking at the Obv. look carefully below the drapery to see an impressed M initial. Or it could be two initial V's one on top of the other upside down.

Can this be called a " countermarked " coin or has this initial been put onto the die that has been made from the flawed drapery die ? Questions questions, all of which I cannot answer as I do not see enough of these contemporary forgeries to know. I am sure some of you collectors will know and be able to compare this example to others known.

The legend is good and the legend on the rim as well and looking at this you can see a fine line between the sides and edge indicating the silver plate.

Some of you will also be aware of the Dutch Forgeries during this time were cast and they are slightly underweight made of silver or pewter.

Simon made the original dies & Tanner was making them too at this time.

An interesting website I found was on British Numismatic Society - title A Summary of Cromwell Coinage by Marvin Lessen written in 1966. I would imagine there have been many more scholars and researchers looking into these coins since then.

Some of the coins made during this time were made for collectors of the period and this could well have been one of those !? More questions to answer.

I am struggling to find any other coin like mine with this initial M or two V's below the drapery on the Obv.

I do think the coin is worthy of being in a good collection and more research can be done on it if you know what you are looking at as I have only touched the surface of known dies and where the "leaves" point to, the number 8 of the date - mine actually does not look like an 8 over a 7 though and legend style etc.

I am not a coin grader so please see close up pictures for more details and visual confirmation of condition.

It measures approx. 39mm in diameter x 2mm deep edge and it weighs approx. 22.3 grams.

I have just seen that the Chinese modern base metal copies are slightly larger, they do not have the die flaw drapery and weigh about 24+ grams.

I have spent all afternoon browsing the web and reading some really interesting websites relating to Cromwell crowns.

Also be assured this is NOT a vintage or modern reproduction item, it is an antique example and worthy of more research. Quite a bit of fresh knowledge could be gleaned from this example I am sure. I know I am banging on about it but I do think it is an important coin in its own right.

I have put a hefty £ price on it as I want to KNOW about it from some of you specialist collectors or museum curators. I am in no rush to sell it yet - I just want to know more about it first. It is an interesting coin.

My stock ref.... in #R89 special coins box.